# 193 — Pat Callis

Pat Callis is an icon of climbing history in North America. His first ascents and early attempts span the distance from Southern California to northern-Alberta, Canada. While this conversation may not seem relevant to the topic of fitness, I believe it is because endurance is fitness and Pat is still climbing (and well) at 84 years of age. Our discussion will, I hope, become an important moment in the oral history of climbing. We discuss the first ascents of the Great White Throne in Zion, the Lost Arrow Direct, the north face of Mount Robson and early attempts on the Emperor Face, and the development of ice in Hyalite Canyon, among other events that have influenced climbing, especially in Montana and Wyoming. When discussing the Great White Throne (climbed with Fred Beckey and Galen Rowell) I wondered aloud if that was the same face climbed in 1978 by George Willig in front of the Wide World of Sports cameras. That was actually Angel's Landing, which Willig climbed with Steve Matous, whereas I recalled him being alone. Mike Hoover ran the camera for that and the riggers were a Who's Who of the best rock climbers of the time. Later I mentioned the "Retro" ascent of the north face of the Eiger using original gear, and again, my memory was inaccurate regarding Stephan Siegrest wishing to use a modern kernmantle rope. From the photos here https://stephan-siegrist.com/adventures/eiger-retro#gallery, it appears they did use old, laid rope, like Goldline (or similar).For a unique perspective on climbing and Pat and the impact he has had on individuals around him check out Blair's essay in the Journal on the NonProphet website. This conversation lasts 3hrs 45min. We could have broken it into two posts but that simply isn’t our style — full send, wherever you are.