Passion for Learning: Krystle Moos

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, host Jon Eckert interviews Krystle Moos, an award-winning science teacher known for her innovative and engaging teaching methods. The discussion revolves around Krystle's approach to creating a dynamic learning environment that fosters curiosity, belonging, and genuine learning experiences for her students. Krystle emphasizes the importance of addressing distractions and creating a sense of belonging in the classroom, regardless of the evolving landscape of technology. She shares her strategy of making science hands-on and exploratory, moving away from traditional labs towards phenomenon-based learning to spark wonder and curiosity in her students.

To learn more, order Jon's book, Just Teaching: Feedback, Engagement, and Well-Being for Each Student.
 
The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work.
 
Be encouraged.


Connect with us:
Baylor MA in School Leadership
Baylor Doctorate in Education
Jon Eckert: @eckertjon
Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl

Mentioned:
Limitless Mind: Learn, Lead, and Live Without Barriers by Jo Boaler
 

 
Transcription:
Jon Eckert:
Welcome back to the Just Schools Podcast. We're really excited today because in our podcast studio/my office, we have the award-winning amazing science teacher, Krystle Moos. A huge blessing to be able to work with her through our master's program. She's also a local educator that's impacted many, many kids' lives over the last several years. So, Krystle, thank you for being here first of all.
Krystle Moos:
Oh, it's honestly an honor and a joy to share education and our experiences with everybody we can.
Jon Eckert:
Yeah. Oh, and I should mention you're also... My kids got to pick one teacher that they dedicated the book just teaching to, and so one of my daughters picked Ms. Moos as her most just teacher. So teacher that leads to justice and flourishing, not just a teacher, but the most impactful teacher that she had. So she had selected Ms. Moos. And now my other daughter is getting the benefit from Ms. Moos as well. So I think this is the first educator that I've been able to interview that's taught my own children. So you can feel free to share any shortcomings as a parent that I have that you see through my children. But really, what I want to talk to you today about is you've been teaching for a while, and you've won these awards and these accolades for being a great teacher, which are well deserved. But I'm curious, what do you see that's different about kids today than when you first started teaching?
Krystle Moos:
Yeah, I don't think there's much that's different, honestly. They have different distractions. And so I started my first five years at Waco ISD. It was a title one school, and their distractions were very different than when I moved to Midway ISD. It's more of a suburban school. They didn't have as many phones back then. Not everybody had a phone. We weren't assigning digital assignments when I first went to Midway, but they still had other distractions.
I had distractions when I was a student. It was writing notes and finding cute ways to fold them and sneak them along, and we still... I would leave and go to the library to write a paper. And so, I think they're the same. They're still distracted. They still have the same fundamental belonging in the classroom. And when we look at students and we look at what they're facing, and I do think they're facing more, everything's just way more visible in their life and way more connected, which can be really distracting. But then I think about sitting in my course, three math class, and writing notes to my friends and folding them, and I definitely was not engaged.
I think that sense of belonging in any classes where that teacher really made me feel like things were meaningful, they really cared about what I was doing, and what I was learning, and where I was going really were the most impactful classrooms that helped me center. And so, whether it was 17 years ago when I started or today before I get to the content, you have to get to the belonging and why we're doing things, and then the distractions fade away.
Jon Eckert:
Well, I like that you went back to the part that makes us human, which we all have this desire to belong. We want to be seen and known by other people, and that's an innate need. I think that's true. I think the distraction is also true, depending on how engaged we are in the classroom. We're looking for distraction. I think the challenge that I see is I don't think kids are different. I would agree, and I hope that's an encouragement to educators today that the kids aren't different. I do think the ability to distract them has increased significantly because we didn't walk around in our pocket with this device that engineers are paying billions of dollars to turn us as kids into the product. Their attention is that we didn't have that. You had the paper and pencil and the pen and the origami folding, which you could distract yourself, but nobody's being paid to distract you.
Krystle Moos:
Yeah. And I think that is something that we battle in my classroom. I make you grab your phone and show me it on days where I notice that things are going to be a little bit harder and I need them all in. I'll say, "Grab your phone. If you're not reaching in your bag, you're doing something wrong. Get your phone in your bag." When I walked in here today, I took my watch off. And so I think it's training people on when it's appropriate to use devices and when we need to put it away and really focus on what we're learning on each other, so that way the experience is more meaningful.
Jon Eckert:
Well, and I think in your classroom... Again, as a middle school science teacher, I never rose to the level of high school teacher, but I was a middle school science teacher. What I loved about middle school science is it's hands-on. You're doing things. You're experimenting. You're demonstrating. You're seeing how this works, and you did it this way this time, and now you do it this other way, this other time, and what's different, and you're recording it, and you're observing. And so it's designed to capture your attention. It requires your attention. So talk about some of the ways you make science come alive through the ways you make it hands-on in your class.
Krystle Moos:
So I went to school, where I loved all my teachers. I was a very compliant student, and I just did what I was told to do, and I was horrible at lab. I was the student that would finish a lab, have all the numbers, and then go sit and bother the teacher until they told me exactly what step to do to get the result.
When I started teaching, I took all labs and took the instructions away. I would do all the labs first. And I really made it more about exploring and modeling and less about manipulation of equipment. And so, I felt like a lot of labs were cookie-cutter labs. You just followed the instructions, and then it kind of connected to the content, but not at all. For me, it wasn't until I started teaching that I understood all the big connections.
As I rewrite labs, I take away the instructions. I make them target labs, or we'll spend multiple days or minutes, even just minutes, looking at a phenomenon, something as simple as ice melting on a block of plastic versus a block of metal. And then we draw, and we discuss, and we show transfer of energy. And so a lot more of the class is discussing revising models. And then I can drive the conversation of what's happening based on student misconceptions, and it makes it less paper pencil working through practice problems and more relatable, so I can say things like, "Do you remember in class when we did this thing? What did you learn, and how can you apply it to this problem?"
Jon Eckert:
Why do you think more teachers don't do this? Again, science lends itself to this, but a lot of science teachers, it's all procedures. It's all trying to track what you did when you did it. Be very careful in your observations, but it's not this exploration of the bigger concepts. Why do you think teachers don't do that more in whatever discipline they're in?
Krystle Moos:
Yeah, I think we do what we were taught. And so I think for a lot of people, it's just really easy to take what's out there and do it, and it worked. And so why change it? And for me, it didn't work for me. And I hated that I spent hours in college in lab, not understanding why I was doing it. And I wanted my students to have a different experience. And I wanted them to see the science around them coming to life so that when they walk outside and it's snowing, they're thinking about the transfer of energy and what's actually happening with the individual water molecules. And I just know I have to change what happened to me so that my students could see all the things that I'm seeing now.
We were just driving down the road. I drove from Denver to New York. And I looked out the window and saw a huge solar panel, a whole field, really, of solar panels. And I got this incredible idea that when I do a topic, I could actually have the students do those little... You know the car where this has a little solar panel, and when light strikes it, it bobbles its head? Well, I could have them explore with different color light on the end of flashlights to figure out a new relationship, a new lab that might make a little bit more sense to the students than the way I had been doing it by just discussing it.
Jon Eckert:
So what I love about what you've described already is you talked about this human piece that we want to belong. And then I think you also are tapping into this idea of wonder. How do we create a sense of awe and wonder about how things work? Not just, "Oh, that's amazing and that's beautiful," but what makes that work?
And when kids start doing that, I think that's how five-year-olds are. They have this curiosity that somehow school rings out of them. And I do think you're right that sometimes we just replicate what we experience as students. But I also think there's a fear of turning over control to students, where it's a lot easier to bore kids into compliance or make sure they follow these steps. And you can see, "Oh, they're not following the steps. They're not complying," where someone might walk into your classroom and be like, "What is going on here?" There's so much happening, there's so much energy. And that creates a sense of loss of control. And if I did that in my classroom, it would just get out of hand. And they fear that loss of control. Do you think that's true, or am I overstating what some teachers might be feeling?
Krystle Moos:
I think it's a little bit of that, and I think it's having those procedures in place. I go everywhere and in populations of adults, obviously, if you can hear me clap once, and it works every single time. But it's also that awkwardness and that a willingness to try something new. Science is about experimentation. I think education is about experimentation. So today, you said wonder. One of the things that I ask my students to do when they model or when they observe a phenomenon, the first thing I ask them is to write down two things they notice and then two things they wonder. And when we start to do that, we start to get them to think. And today, I even messed up in class. I said, "What do you guys notice?" And instead of giving them time to talk to each other first, I asked that question to the whole class complete in utter silence.
And so in the next class period I was like, "I got to do this better," so I gave them some time to talk together, "and I need three answers. I need three people to respond when you're done." I had eight people that just... I had to let them answer all eight of them. And so it's looking at what works and what doesn't work. It also is getting together with other educators. And so, so much of what I do has been revised by talking to teachers across the nation, not just in chemistry, also in biology, and really driving those conversations about, "What do you do? My students struggle with this. Do you have a lab or an activity or a way to teach it? Tell me how you teach it." And being okay, saying, "My students are struggling. What I'm doing is not working. I need some new ideas so that I can get my students to the point of wonder."
Jon Eckert:
Well, I think isn't that ultimately the goal for each of us is that whatever our subject is to get them to wonder. Because if we really want to tap into intrinsic motivation, we can intrinsically motivate them. That's, by definition, impossible. But if you can create the conditions like you did in the second class period where you set it up where it wasn't about you, it was about what they wanted to share, that creates conditions where they might be intrinsically motivated by the concept that they're studying. Because again, intrinsic motivation isn't "I want to be good at science so that I can get into college and then become a doctor." That's all delayed extrinsic motivation. It's, "Do I really have this awe and wonder about what I'm doing?" And I think that's more likely to happen in a class where they feel like they belong.
I will say too, my daughters have both said they love Ms. Moos because of your kind of nerdy love for so many things. And I think that's great because I think you've done a great job modeling that you're not trying to be cool, as whatever an 18-year-old thinks is cool. It's, "No, I think this is amazing," and that passion comes across to them. It's like, "Wow, I've never known anybody quite like that." And then that makes it okay for them to be excited about things that really get them going.
Have you seen that pay dividends? Do you ever struggle with that? I mean, I was clearly not a cool person by the standards of middle school kids, but I felt like I tried to make it okay to be quirky and be a little different and weird. Have you seen that pay dividends for you?
Krystle Moos:
I think I'm just quirky and weird. I'm okay. Just I am who I am, and I don't want my students to think that they have to be anything different than what they are. And having that belonging means that they get to see my weird. They get to see me on my best days when I'm just so excited, and they get to see me on some days that are a little bit harder. And so I really... I guess I didn't think I was that quirky, but I like it. I tell them, "I run science UIL. We're the nerd herd, and we are going to embrace it and love it." And the thing is that science and math and those are the places that I live and breathe. And man, if you want to come with me, great. If not, just appreciate the fact that I'm really excited about something, and I'm happy to hear about what you're excited about too.
Jon Eckert:
And I think that's part of the belonging you create in your classroom. And I may still remember you were talking to us about the eclipse that's coming.
Krystle Moos:
Path of totality.
Jon Eckert:
We've been talking about the path of totality in our house ever since, and-
Krystle Moos:
I'm not even a space person. Just you know, I've never taken a day of a space science class, but I am so excited. I didn't know when we had the annual eclipse. I don't know if you saw the pictures. But when the annual eclipse shines through the trees, the shadow is actually representative of what's happening in the sky because you're not supposed to look at it directly.
Jon Eckert:
Interesting.
Krystle Moos:
And so I didn't know that. And that stuff, what I didn't know, I didn't know. And what I've learned, I'm just so excited to share. It's path of totality on April 8th. I'm so excited.
Jon Eckert:
Space science, I never took anything in space science. I never taught it. And again, if you haven't taught something, it's hard to really know it. So I'm with you, but it is fascinating. And I just love that the energy you bring to that, but it's not just for the subject because sometimes people say, "Oh, elementary teachers teach the kids, and high school teachers teach the subject." It's like, no, you still teach kids, but you teach them to be passionate about what they're interested in. And you bring a passion to the science that I think is it effervesces in a way that it draws people in.
So one of the things you talked about before we jumped on is the way you give feedback based on this. So again, it's really way easier to give meaningful feedback when you have kids who are deeply engaged. But how do you give feedback in a way that helps kids grow and stretch in ways that are hard and uncomfortable but pays big dividends in the end?
Krystle Moos:
Yeah, I think anytime something's tied to a grade, you have a chance of not seeing what students really know and don't know. When we start deducting points for showing what you don't know, I just feel like it's asking students to copy from someone else because it has a stake in it, even if it's just a practice grade, especially when we get to evaluation grades. I don't want to be surprised on a test if a student didn't know something that I thought that they knew because they completed all their assignments. So I like to frequently stop, give the questions, give two or three questions to the students, and say, "Take it like a test. Take it like a quiz. Go in a corner. Don't get help from anybody. Just get as far as you can." And so we do this once or twice a week.
In AP chemistry, we do it all the time. I'm like, "Okay, you're going to do a CF..." We call it a CFU, a check for understanding. And what I do is they are low-stakes, very low-stakes, or no-stakes grades. And so, I'll get someone that turns it in completely blank, and they tried. They read the question. They'll have circled things, but they don't even know where to get started. I know that when I hand it back the next day, I'm going to pull that kid for a small group and work with them. It takes six weeks to drive out from students. That's okay to not know. It's not okay to not ask for help. And I'm still slowly getting the kids to kind of get rid of that. I would rather have you turn in assignments late. I would rather have you learn it later than now if you're not ready for it now, as long as you're willing to work on it later. And it has just been incredible. Students will get...
The class average on a CFA will be 50%. And I will feel so bad about myself because that means I taught it horribly the first time. But maybe I'll do peer-to-peer tutoring, or maybe I'll pull small group, or maybe I'll go over the CFA together. And it was the way the question was worded. And then on the test, the class average is a 90. So at first, I was like, "Maybe my tests aren't hard enough." But that feedback that constantly having students do it low-stakes, working with them, conferencing with them, and then having them learn from their mistakes has just been so impactful on their overall grades. They don't freak out for tests like they used to.
Jon Eckert:
And I know you don't teach for an AP score. I know that's not what motivates you, but your kids do well on AP exams. And that's the kind of teacher that I like to see because that AP exam is validation that, "Hey, they learned a lot." And it's not about grade inflation because we have this really problematic thing going on in high schools right now where there's a ton of cheating going on. There's a tacit endorsement among some teachers like, "Hey, I don't care how you get the answers, just get the answers and let's move on." So you have graduation rates that are off the charts because kids are moving through, and the National Assessment of Education Progress, ACT, SAT they're all showing these declines in actual learning.
And so what I loved in what you described was this check for understanding is not a throwaway grade. This is a true formative check for me and you to know what you do and don't know. And so then, when you get to the summative assessment, you have these high scores because you and your student know what you didn't know, and then you figure out ways because you are one of the most tireless teachers I've seen for reteaching, figuring out ways to show it a different way, and have an unbelievable amount of energy for that. And that's what gets them over that bar. So it's not about grade inflation. They've truly earned that. And that is, to me, the goal of any teacher.
I don't understand teachers that are okay with a class average of 60% that they then curve and bump up because I really want to know what's the 40% of what you taught that you don't care that your kids don't know. I would hope in most classes, the class average is 90% are higher because I want to know if I'm the teacher that's going to get those kids they learn those things. And coming out of your class, they know that. Now, that's not the way most educators work. Why do you think that is?
Krystle Moos:
It's hard. It is really hard to get the students to take ownership over their own learning because we have just passed them on. And so, if in second grade they struggle with one aspect of math, we pass them on. We're in a very heavy math unit right now, and it involves solving proportions. I can teach them the chemistry. They know all the units. But when it gets to the math, I had to spend a half a class period pulling out small groups of students, that when I said, "Look, it's a proportion. You cross multiply and divide." I had kids honest enough. Let's just be real there. Teenagers being honest enough to say, "I don't know how to do that." They said... An exact quote was, "Teachers have been saying this to me. Cross multiply and divide for the past three years, and I don't know what they mean."
And these are students in honors chemistry. And so I've broken down this wall of it's okay to not know, but you have to ask. And if I don't explain it well the first time, I put a lot of the blame on me. If I didn't explain it well the first time because you didn't get it, ask me again, and we'll come up with something else. Or let's go ask one of your friends, because your friend may have been through the same exact system you were. Something I said clicked for them. And so we just do a lot of peer-to-peer tutoring too.
Jon Eckert:
No, that's great. And I do think sometimes you take too much of the responsibility on yourself as an educator. And I think, as educators, we need to know it's a partnership. And kids have to ask, and they have to do the work. I think, sometimes kids, and I don't think this is true in your class, they'll say, "Well, I don't get it." It's like, "No. You have to articulate what you don't understand because I don't get it is basically saying, 'I'm not even going to try to articulate what I don't know.'" Your example with the proportions is a good example. "Teachers have told me this over and over again, and I don't know what that means." That's a really helpful place because then you can step in and say, "Oh, here's what this is." And you shouldn't have to be teaching that in honors chemistry, but...
Krystle Moos:
I'm going to. If we look at... You're talking about the learning connection, what our students know. I think for me, honors chemistry, the big thing is I can support our students in ACT, SAT, and just general knowledge. And if that's the hole they're missing, I'm going to jump in and fill it because do I want them to learn chemistry? Yes. But how many of them are going to use ideal gas law later on in life? And so if I can teach them proportion, I'm good for the day.
Jon Eckert:
Right, right. No. And I really appreciate that about the way you approach, and that's what a lot of great teachers do, and we need to just continue to highlight that. So we always wrap up with a lightning round. So here's your chance in a word, phrase, or sentence to answer a few. And I have a few common ones I go back to, so I'll ask some of those, and we'll see if I come up with anything random. Feel free to take a pause if you need to, because a lot of times these are the first times you've heard these questions, but what's your favorite book that you've read in this past year? It could be education-related, or it could be anything else. I always want a good book recommendation.
Krystle Moos:
I always go to Limitless Mind by Jo Boaler, Productive Struggle, just that grit, that tenacity, that it's okay to not know. I would recommend it for any math, really. Any science teacher.
Jon Eckert:
Yeah, you recommended that to me early on when a friend, Jo Boaler, does great stuff. Great, great example for educators. Okay. What is the worst piece of advice you've ever received?
Krystle Moos:
Yeah. I've watched a lot of the podcasts, and so I know the repeat ones, but I had someone recommend. And I thought it was a great idea to separate all the loud students that talk from each other. And I very quickly learned that they still talk just across the classroom. And so I'm a little bit more intentional about that. And I provide them opportunities to work with their louder friends, but gosh, that was just horrible. The one here, I separated, and they were screaming across the room.
Jon Eckert:
Well, with my middle schoolers, what I would do in the lab is I would let them choose who they got to sit with for the quarter, and then they get to pick their seats again the next quarter. They said to pick, they couldn't sit with anybody they sat with that quarter, so their group of four would get broken up, and so they had to move those around. But what I found was they so badly wanted to be together that if you put them together and said, "Hey, if this isn't a good choice for you, I'm going to intercede, and we're going to move you," I found that that was my best way to control some of the off-task behavior that they would get. Sometimes, putting them together was the best thing I could do. Not always, but sometimes.
Krystle Moos:
And their conversations are just so much cooler when they're willing to talk to one another.
Jon Eckert:
Yes. And hilarious.
Krystle Moos:
Oh, hilarious.
Jon Eckert:
And hilarious. All right. Best piece of advice you've ever received.
Krystle Moos:
Yeah. Support the support staff. My secretaries, custodians, they are the backbone behind the school. I support my leaders, support everybody, but those custodians and secretaries really can get overlooked. And their impact is very powerful at the school.
Jon Eckert:
Well said. Good thing to remember. Love that. What's the biggest challenge you see for educators in the year ahead?
Krystle Moos:
Anticipating gaps in learning. As a secondary teacher, I used to know what the students weren't, and were going to know, and where they were. And it seems like each year, planning for those misconceptions is getting a little bit more challenging, but I think it's also really fun to look at the first period and go, 'That did not work. Let's scrap it and try again."
Jon Eckert:
Yep. No, well said. What's the thing that makes you most optimistic as you look ahead?
Krystle Moos:
The kids. They're absolutely just doing incredible things. My students are trying and working with me and growing and building. And really, this move to a standards-based learning. Learning to learn and not learning for a grade has changed so much of my students' perspective on learning. They're willing to try things and ask questions in a way that I haven't seen in a while.
Jon Eckert:
Well, I really appreciate you coming on today. And also, just thank you for helping kids become more of who they're created to be. I think sometimes kids don't even have a vision for who the Lord has made them to be. Obviously, God's never surprised by who that kid, what they can do, but I feel teachers like you help speak into kids' lives, share that with them explicitly, but then implicitly, through the way you teach, give feedback, and push them, allows them to do things that they probably didn't imagine they could do. And you have a lot of kids at Midway High School who consider chemistry and the sciences because they feel like they can do it coming out of your class. So it's a huge blessing to my own children but also to the community. And again, it's what great teachers do. So thanks for being on, and thanks for all you do.
Krystle Moos:
Of course. Thank you.