Hurricanes in the Mediterranean? Call them medicanes

The Lee Weather team goes across the pond to Europe for this episode for a discussion about an unusual type of storm. They look like a hurricane, have nearly the same characters of a hurricane, and now even have names like hurricanes. Called medicanes, they're the Mediterranean Sea's biggest weather beast. 
The Lee Weather team speaks to Kostas Lagouvardos, Research Director at the National Observatory of Athens.
Lagouvardos has studied medicanes since the 1990s, is the foremost authority on the storms, and became the first person to name them. Naming is now done by the Greek government, similar to how hurricanes are named in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. 
After a powerful storm, Ianos, caused death and devastation in September 2020, his research published in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society sparked more interest in the topic. 
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About the Across the Sky podcast
The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:
Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.
Episode transcript
Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Across the Sky podcast, Lee Enterprises National Weather Podcast. We are in 77 newsrooms all across the country, all corners of the country, but we are not talking about the United States today. We are going across the pond over to Europe and the Mediterranean Sea to talk about Medicaid. Sounds like a hurricane.
All north is like a hurricane, but it's what they see in the Mediterranean Sea. We are going to chat with Dr. Kostas legal bartels research director from the National Observatory in Athens, Greece. All about it. You know, guys, I was I'll get through the Bolton the American Meteorological Society. Shout out to the American Meteorological Society. They they do wonders for the weather community.
We love being a part of it. And I saw this this piece called Eno's A Hurricane in the Mediterranean. I said, Jesus said, you know, I feel like this would be a good podcast topic because a lot of us can relate to Hurricane. We've either been in one or we've seen plenty of it, you know, on our screens, but it's a little different.
You don't expect hurricanes in the Mediterranean and there's some differences. But Kostas is going to talk to us about those differences. You know, I think I think he did a good job explaining it. But I'll turn it over to my weather friends here across the country, Sean Sublette, the Richmond Times-Dispatch, and Matt Hollander over in the Midwest West.
I'll start with you, Matt, here. Did you know much about medications before this topic? No, not until you brought it up. I was like. Hurricanes in the Mediterranean, that that's new to me. But this isn't a new thing. And I would been doing like, Oh, no, these have occurred before. But the difference is it really caught everybody's attention in 2020 when they had an intense well, they actually reached Category two hurricane strength most of the time was going tropical storms.
There have been a few they've been a Category one strength. But a lot of times they stay out in the water. And so they're not impacts land. They tend to be weak. But that seems to be changing and that's what we're back. And I'm on the podcast because they had one that made landfall with category due strength. Then suddenly there are big impacts and it looks like there might be a trend that way in the increasing intensity.
So we might have to start paying attention to them a little bit closer in the future. And so you seem to know about everything weather at all time. You're you're the expert here of the three of us that did you know about it? I had heard of medications. One of the things that I'm not as well versed on is, is the formation of them.
I think we all understand what a tropical cyclone is. It's deriving its energy from from warm water. Right. But there are other kind of physical restrictions going on. You know, the Mediterranean Sea is smaller than than the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico. The geography is different. You've got you've got islands poking in from all directions. You've got Italy jutting southward from the continent.
And the other thing that that I wasn't well versed on either was how warm does the Mediterranean get? My own mind, I thought, well, it ought to get pretty warm. Does it get as warm as the Gulf of Mexico? So we talked a little bit about that. So there are some restrictions going on here physically. So those were the things that I was was most curious about, you really addressed those?
Well, I thought I think he he did a good job with this. You know, there is a little bit of a accent here. You know, we are talking to the Coast Guard who lives in Greece. But I'll tell you what, he knows almost as much English as all of us. And he Dupuy knows a lot more English than I know Italian.
So I'll give him credit to that. But fantastic interview. We're going to dive right into it here. Here is Coast us talking all about Medicaid in the Mediterranean. And now we welcome on Dr. Kostas Legal Bartos. He is the research director for the National Observatory of Athens and the Institute for Environmental Research in Athens, Greece. It is just about noon our time here in America.
He is joining us this evening. He's got to go to dinner afterwards, but we appreciate you coming on the podcast here today, Kostas, and talking to us all about Medicaid. Thanks you for thanks for the invitation. It is an honor for me to be part of this discussion and explain what's happening right. And we're very happy to have you.
And we're happy to go international, too, as well as as we talk about this. So we talked a little bit about this in the introduction, about the medications before we had you on here. But you know, the story that you focused on and your and your research study was called and I say in or. Right, you know, is that the right way?
Yes, I've got this. So you title it this a hurricane in the Mediterranean. And yeah, this storm was strong. I mean, you know, for people who are here in the United States listening, I mean, this took place in September of 2020. Unfortunately, four people died, 1400 landslides in two days from this. And maximum sustained winds were 98 miles an hour.
To give you an idea of how strong that is, that's like a Category two hurricane. So this was immensely strong. And I want to we will get into that storm. But from my understanding, you've been studying these medications since before since the 20th century. So for over 20 years now. So what got you interested in this is this little field of medications.
What got you interested in? I the thing is that is part of the major weather events that we investigate well above to investigate all you made the case, but also severe storms. So severe thunderstorms or even heatwaves because unfortunately, the heat wave also is a it's a it's a natural disaster. Then assignment either. But then they we got to the main event when I was young and I started my work in the observatory at the time, the first satellite images of Sandy was in 1995 and they remember it was it's very it's almost 30 years ago and it was happening.
Fascinating because it was like something was that something like as more hurricane at this moment in the middle of the Mediterranean? And it was one of the first made the game as we investigated the thing that I and then a lot of people were scientists. We do that in right and response Spain, Italy and Greece started investigating against and but now we have after this period of almost 50 years of a long track and investigating video games for many scientists in Europe and then with the running more of a grant do that that investigator that that we investigated in full and the last one because it was the big this happened was us it we
were we put a lot of in the V.A. because first of what was affected Greece and then because we we realized from the beginning of information that something might be coming next days. Got a little bit later on this one. And finally, was it the event after midday? And according to the wreckage, have so far because of the most intense with attack go to sustained winds if we begin to suffer symptoms.
Kate, were you in Greece when this was happening? What was it like actually being there? Yeah, I guess I got a question because we have three, three years ago in 2000, they have another one, similar one, which is repeated, smaller, less infamous. But it was a little bit peculiar because it affected more or less the same areas. Muscle north in Africa to Greece and then back to again south.
But this one was fine and it was very, very powerful watching for casualties in central place. And as you said, landslides flattened in many areas. Bay and wind. So storm shelters in the west of this that it's all over Italy, Italy and Greece. And so it was a good opportunity to because now have many, many tools to investigate of more satellite.
It will expand later on of the chance to cover groups up in like of a passing. This may be a very good models of many more surface observations you know that to follow the evolution of the middle game and see what what's happening and understand what's happening inside them middle the plane which is not it had a bishop note to them all.
And Kostas, to put things in perspective for our audience, what is the frequency like for these meditations? Like how often do they occur? How rare of a situation is this novel? More or less. Well, I know the two per year, the Mediterranean, most of them are the Western, but there are only two with Spain by that island, Sicilian, Corsica.
But also we have very little in Greece like are. It's very seldom the nonexistent to God awful but it being some decent other that I thought were outside groups and the Middle East and one or two per year with some of them are moving on over the water so there's not a threat for people or revolve how many islands that are so and affected and maybe things.
And then I have this shrine of sur continent of Greece that those of the islands these and if and probably the problems in this area and the but the two on one or two. But again the intensity of this all of these yeah. Not was something was never seen so far and maybe that that causes Sean here in Virginia.
So when we think about tropical cyclones here and the eastern part of North America, you know, we think about the classical hurricanes and how they can grow to such a large size, I imagine there they're going to be spatial constraints there in the Mediterranean. But are these exclusively will core tropical cyclones, are they hybrids? And the other question I have for you is a warm does the Mediterranean get during the warmest part of the summer?
Yeah. These are this mitigates their warm core shaking but they are not be finished with the hybrid games they are not interested so much BBC surface temperature of surface temperature than and it could go up up to 28 degrees but 6 to 8 but this not the the main mechanism a miserable cover up at low cold air aloft warming here of course the bottom have a flow of moisture from the sea surface towards the cyclone of condensation.
The release of Egypt will have a warm core, the yellow surface and so which they look like hurricanes, but the mechanism is not actually the same. The second one of the not the same size as diameter of the tentacle, where between one and 200 kilometers it's mean 1/10 of a big added problem besides a full develop. But for the size of the transmission, they that big enough.
But as I said before, we're not we don't have so far mindset of the end and a concrete definition of a video game. And also all the mechanism related events have worked very well to not because we don't have or the tools we need to investigate them and figure down the public have added anyhow all their plans crossing eye damage to make their measurements, the least drop zones and have on this mission.
Unfortunately, this does not exist but the Mediterranean. And so we rely on models, but also on satellite imagery which it. Yes. Oh yeah. Knows we're very lucky because you have the passage of from a US to Japan satellite the global precipitation mission Japan and have very very good snapshot 3D structure weather from the radar the ongoing satellite that will that are very very likely because you have a very good image from GPM satellite during the intense phase of of this maybe so you're really getting like you said, from satellites and you know, observational been on the ground here.
And you know, you kind of point out how crucial our hurricane hunters are and our aircraft is within the United States to track these storms. They provide, you know, a wealth of data every time they go out there. It's not cheap, but it's worth it to help, really. You know, like, you know, guys, you were kind of looking to get a full picture of the storm.
My question is, are there either government agencies or universities out there that are talking about getting some hurricane aircraft into these storms? Is that is that something is there a push for that over across the pond here in Europe, there is a great interest, but I don't think that we have an in mean we have some research airplanes in Europe.
Okay. But it's a little bit difficult to because the phenomenon is a little bit yeah that's a problem they give us or on CO2 per year they want to get it can have a good chance of group had an enemy became atoll but this is a problem but I think we have we must do it because we can also use this type of measurement also for normal low pressure system, but also that are not very powerful from meteorological bombs, that are not very dense, but also they up very high, sustained winter.
They can provoke problems in the but the the case we need data to better understand because any member of one of our work on the Pacific Oceans to provide for us the public and also to do the authorities get with the metservice. And I remember when we went to the last seven days and in the beginning was a cluster of thunderstorms on all the other on the coast of Africa and then we started the discussion according to the model, if these are going to be develop at big amid the or not, it's quite a limited similar with discussion of risk for job of a tropical depression coming from Africa.
If this we began to gain out of the after to do best and the to be honest it was inside us but in working with the preventative the day and then when we show from the satellite image digital that made the cables from this spiral of the clouds spiraling around the center of the cloud area, the middle like is more chaotic.
And then the second one, as I mentioned, which will be the path if this medication will affect Greece or not, which part? And it was then scheduled in the accused or this things because people were following forecast provided by Greek forecasters. See what we do copying the next one to this because started this municipalities were what we want in some case because something is there and it was present and like yeah of the world okay so like apocalypse issued with from Apocalypse Now the apocalypse were from for from there was up nothing is on my media but it was a based and the we have to put a plan that what will happen when they
maybe ten and make landfall to the western part of Greece south of but it will stay over the sea so there's no problem. It was a difficult situation from the forecasting point of view. And yeah, we still see challenges here in the United States with forecasting and messaging impacts. And, you know, we see these all the time. So it's a shared concern all across the globe.
It sounds like you're worried again, some more about Medicaid's here. We're going to take a quick break and we'll come back to you on the Across the Sky podcast. All right. And we are back here with the Across the Sky podcast. New episodes every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts or on your favorite newsroom's website, here we have Sean Sublette.
I'm Joe Martucci, Matt Hollander. Here we are here with Costas Overdose from the National Observatory of Athens and Greece. We were talking about medications. Matt, I know you had a question to Leah, and also I'm going to kick it over to you, buddy. What do you got? Yeah, I want to know what you know kind of goes into the preparation for these storms.
Obviously, they're not super frequent, but they do occur. So I kind of want to know what the attitude is for people who live along the Mediterranean and maybe how it's changed some now that we've had a significant one that hit in 2020. So kind of describe the the level of preparation and the attitude the folks along med during a had before and after that storm it comes to these medications.
Yes well I, I think that the I.R.A. changed the mentality of people against the were speaking about natural disasters in general because it was something we was being it because for casualties some cases become more than for casualties for now for example see years ago from supercell thunderstorm said casualties but the as you understand and this is not only the number of casualties, but also the extent of the event was covered most recent, not so big in many, many places.
So I think many people remember in loss and this big both again those and that as in as I would say as yeah a fed for the future that we discuss a little bit later on that but the risk and this kind of oh this weather is weather should be strong Nike air knows we be sampling of the future will be more frequent.
This is not true but we will discuss a little later on them. But I talk because it was a long process. You have this formation of the last one of the class and the formation of the initial stage of the meditation, and there was a that many discussions to focus this to the public, what will happened. And there were some corporations I they think that we avoid the many problems, especially in the western part of the island, because it was a preparation for this, for this because it was a September mid September, which is for still a tourist excursion of many tourists about boards on sailing boards or vacation homes.
And but they were avoided big problems and maybe a lot of casualties because we have a good preparation of this or this event. But for many people, this was admitted, Jane, and that is shameless with any pain. It gave it gave them the fear that something very bad and this fear made them more precautions and they took some precautions.
Had we avoided many casualties, mainly due to this cell room, when you have a but something very bad will happen. And as we understand, because a lot of discussion that we it's something I would be game something like American pretends like we like in the Atlantic we try to expand that this is not something different. It's violent, but it's more and it's something that I've read that show that when we have some kind of event there and as you said with the wounded, Jeff admitted, what is it that goes into the focus?
I want to ask about the name. So you had an ear nose here. How are the who is naming these storms? A We started in the observatory to give names to storms in 2017. And the mayor the name and that was given by okay, by myself and as the head of the group of well let me project that the lives of my daughter.
So we fought to the same strategy, if we name it, many names alphabetically. So we gained to I. And so again, everything. Yeah, not with Latin down and I think it was a good name that after that this is a little they gossip but they will tell you that that we're here for that. Yes. When we started giving names, some colleagues from the National Metservice, they were not very they said that is not very common in Europe.
But they are doing that. And. Yes, but but Europe. And we should know giving names for big storms is something that helps people to be more prepared to guess the problem. And but the one year ago they decided to follow this procedure and they started giving names by themselves. And that's one of its every is now giving names for storms in Greece.
But we paved the way, I think, and we started we make this initiative give names stops. And I think it's it's proven that it's good not only for us because we remember the cases, because for the general public, we're giving names, providing them with an event people pay attention to this event. This sounds a lot like winter storm naming here in America.
I don't know if you're familiar, Kostas, but the National Weather Service does not name winter storms. However, the Weather Channel does. So it's a little different. You that's where you. Yeah, it all talks about. So, you know, you're a university and it's the government. So it's a little different than a private in a public service here. But it's kind of amazing how quickly the the government took over the naming.
I don't know if it happens that for ideas of naming in the beginning, because I have some colleagues that I think do the social media good Facebook. What why are doing it that it's not in America and the we tried to pressure them but this is something good and finally they understood that and they started naming this storm this as well.
But we said, no, we're not have but what he meant because they make it go region but gave we stepped back and say okay go ahead you name the but the main idea that we have to use us flew with us on autumn storms I think the most correct got it Yeah I'm totally on board with that. So let me ask you this.
As as the awareness of the systems has has risen a bit over the past few years, and we know that that the climate is warming. What do you kind of foresee or what does the science tell us about these storms taking shape in the Mediterranean in terms of their frequency or intensity potentially in the years or even decades to come?
Before that, we have a look what's happened the last 30 years, and we see that we're coming frequency of not a month or two per year with no significant trend decreasing or increasing. This is because you have measurements. And then to compile the climate projections based on high resolution climate models. And we have some colleagues from other countries that make some publications and they show that over the next decade the frequency will not increase or decrease, but the the intensity will and we expect maybe the same number, not better, but a year of gains.
But maybe we'd be deaths at high temperature if I say surface temperature and the we see. But that's why understand that these projections, it's something that they can work up because one will do. But more powerful and more powerful. This one and this one was category four both in were three. And this would be a problem because the major parts of this minute gaze out over the sea bass.
But I spoke of many islands of the meter down in those of people living there, and especially people navigating more ships from one island to gather that these would be a problem. But the have bigger and smaller, stronger, more dense made the gains. But I believe that the using them modern technology, satellite and more sophisticated ones that would be able to provide much forecast for the path and the intensity of them into the future.
And coast us. I think I think we'll leave off with this. I have one more question for you. Have you spoken with the National Hurricane Center here in America about this topic? Have you had or even just any conversation with them? Don't know that it may be too late. It's a mistake from my side, from our side to do that.
In fact, you make last thing. I think that it's a fascinating topic and it's a great it's not good to say fascinating, but something that these people can make a lot of fun disaster. But from a broad scale point of view, something that you which is very affected and will ever things and they were happy as I said before we'll have new satellite will provide data that 20 years ago was unthinkable and so this is good for the future because I think that mainly with more towards small rural remote sensing data and and metrological models will be able to better understand the mechanism of the mitigation, therefore, but to mitigate what caused us.
Thank you so much for joining us here on an evening for you. I know you're going to dinner you so enjoy dinner, but we appreciate the information about medications. And have you ever make it over to the United States? Give us a call. We'll do something in person. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks again for the kind every patient.
Okay. We're very happy to oblige. And thank you very much. We're going to take one more break while some closing thoughts on the Across the Sky podcast.
Thanks again to Kostas for coming on. It was fantastic to never want to walk around our schedule here a little bit. Now we have a seven hour time difference between the East Coast, the U.S. and Greece. But we thank him for his knowledge. And you know, I know it was a little funny at the end where he was like, I was the one who decided to name the storms.
Yeah, he kind of that set off a trend where we're now the equivalent of the National Weather Service or the National Hurricane Center is issuing names for these storms. So a heavy hitter in the weather world, really, if you put it that way. What did you take away from this? Matt? Yeah, it would be cool if I could name a storm that that bad does so.
And he said, that's like, Oh, actually I named. I was like, oh that's, that's pretty cool. I got, I got to give credit there. But you know, the other thing that stood out to me is that, you know, in the communication realm, like people do like the names of these hurricanes and then there's a debate on if we should be naming the winter storms or not either.
But I think that might this is probably coming up in discussion because of the intensity. And that's what was interesting, because it kind of follows what we're seeing in the Atlantic, too. There's some uncertainty about the frequency. It doesn't seem like there's a steady trend and an increase in number of storms that we have had some active seasons and the elastic.
But what the climate models are telling us is that what does seem to be like is an increase in the intensity. And that's why they had the first one ever make it to Category two strength before. And really that's what really matters, because if these things are weak, then it's not a big deal. But when they're tense, that's when the impacts go up.
So if there's an increase in intensity, even if the frequency doesn't go up, that means there's the bigger potential for impact. So it's definitely going to be something that I think people are going to be keeping our closer eye on as we move ahead in the future. Yeah, I agree with that. Most of the most of it is is intensity more than frequency, right.
If you think back to to the basic thermodynamics of it all, you know, you are going to have warmer water and so you are going to have more fuel for we're not just any tropical cyclone, but do you think Extratropical or these hybrid storms sometimes are called subtropical storms. They're still getting energy from warm water. So I do think there's something to be said for that.
And they're going to put down heavier rain and you've got some pretty some pretty steep terrain there and the islands and right around it in the Mediterranean. So, you know, flooding, flash flooding, mudslides, those things are still going to have to be to be dealt with in the years and decades to come. Yeah, I think he said it was about, you know, every I think what do you say how in terms of frequency bout or a year is that what he said.
Well, I think he said maybe a couple a year, but you know, two, three, four That's that's still not a lot. No. Like in the south, like here in the Atlantic basin we're typically looking at at least ten or 15 of something every year. Yeah, right. Exactly. And there's multiple countries is expanding to beyond Mediterranean. So it's not that often that one country is seeing, you know, just Medicaid come on through here.
But, you know, thanks again to Kostas. We went international with this one and we'll try to bring some more people around the globe to you on the across the sky podcast. So coming up, the hits keep on coming here. So next week we have Adam Smith from NOAA's National Centers of Environmental Information to talk about weather disasters, billion dollar weather disasters to be exact.
We have a big fish for the 29th episode. We have the director of the National Hurricane Center. We also have might that is from front page bats that's in collaboration with us at Lee Enterprises. Talk about sports betting and baseball as well. And then I am super, super, super excited for this one. Now, this one's not going to be able to third, but we have Jorge Jay from Major League eating the Nathan's hot dog eating contest, a personal hero of mine in some ways, the biggest hype man on planet Earth.
We're going to have him come on to talk about the hot dog eating contest and the weather. So we really try to bring you everything weather related on the Across the Sky podcast. I think we might be the most diverse weather podcast out there in terms of guests, I don't know, Sean, and maybe you agree with me or not, if we're talking about Major League eating, yeah, we've reached a new level.
That's what it's going to be an interesting one. We add some kind of level. There's some kind of level we've reached there, but I'm not exactly sure how I would describe that level. Right. We'll leave that. We'll leave that to you. The list we will leave that to the listeners to decide what level you have aspired to or sought to.
When we talk about a hot dog eating contest, that that's right. And as we go into July where we believe here's the link. We'll be back with us to from paternity leave as we as we welcome her back. And she's doing very well with her two new baby as well. So I want to wrap up on that note and we will be back with you next Monday with Adam Smith.
Take care, everybody.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.