310. Humanizing History - 赋历史以人性，访谈《奥本海默传》作者 Kai Bird

Our guest is historian and journalist Kai Bird, author of the book American Prometheus, for which he won the Pulitzer Prize. In 2023, the book was adapted to the biographical film Oppenheimer, directed by Christopher Nolan.In this interview, we covered-  Oppenheimer's life, from leading scientific research at the Manhattan Project, to the security hearing after the war.  -  What lessons and warnings we should take from Oppenheimer's life.-Kai's experience writing the book, in collaboration with Martin Sherwin.-How did Kai become a biographer, and how he choose his subjects.In Chinese mythology, there too is a Prometheus-like figure, who taught the Chinese the use of fire. His name was Sui-ren (燧人). But there were three differences between Sui-ren and Prometheus: 1) Sui-ren was human, not a divine being like Prometheus; 2) Sui-ren discovered fire-making on his own, and 3) he was revered as a great teacher and leader for teaching people the use of fire.At the risk of over psycho-analyzing it, I can't help wondering how these ancient myths have shaped the diverging views on the relationship between Nature and human, scientific progress, and technology risks.00:00 - guest introduction00:57 - Oppenheimer's life before the Manhattan Project09:44 - the Manhattan Project22:54 - after the war; security hearing36:10 - what makes for a good story arc39:07 - collaborating with Martin Sherwin43:53 - Hollywood came knocking45:33 - the Nolan film53:48 - becoming a biographer56:32 - choosing subjects63:05 - current projectBlow Your Mind (BYM) is a Chinese and English bilingual podcast that covers a broad range of topics. Some of the recurring themes are: technology, economics, story-telling, history, entrepreneurship, creativity and mathematics. Past show guests include film-makers, authors, performing artists and AI researchers.Email: bymclub@outlook.com====== 本期嘉宾是历史学家兼记者凯·伯德（Kai Bird）。他是普利策奖得主， American Prometheus (中译本《奥本海默转》）作者。在2023年，这本书被改编成了传记电影《奥本海默》，由克里斯托弗·诺兰（Christopher Nolan）执导。在这次采访中，我们讨论了：奥本海默的一生，从领导曼哈顿计划的科研，到战后的安全听证会。我们应该从奥本海默的生活中汲取哪些教训和警示。凯撰写这本书的经历，以及与马丁·谢尔温（Martin Sherwin）的合作。凯是如何成为一名传记作家的，以及他是如何选择传记人物。在中国神话中，也有一个类似普罗米修斯的人物，他教会了人们使用火。他的名字是燧人。但燧人与普罗米修斯有三个不同之处：1) 燧人是人，不像普罗米修斯那样是神；2) 燧人是自己发明了钻木取火；3) 他因教人们使用火而被尊为老师和领袖。这可能是过度分析了，但我不禁猜想这些古老的神话是否深刻影响了对自然与人类、科学进步和技术风险之间的不同看法。00:00 - 嘉宾介绍00:57 - 曼哈顿计划前的奥本海默09:44 - 曼哈顿计划22:54 - 安全听证会和战后奥本海默的生活36:10 - 如何算作一个好故事线39:07 - 与马丁·谢尔温的合作43:53 - 好莱坞来敲门45:33 - 诺兰执导53:48 - 成为传记作家之路56:32 - 人物选择63:05 - Kai 的下一个传记选题如果你对核物理以及原子弹诞生过程感兴趣，除了《奥本海默传》之外，还推荐这部《横空出世》。这是一本更为详尽的历史书，讲述了科学史上群星闪耀的半个世纪，两次世界大战，以及最终原子弹的诞生。此书也获得包括普利策奖在内的多项出版界大奖。Blow Your Mind (BYM) 是一档中英双语播客，涉猎广泛的主题，包括科技、经济、讲故事、历史、创业、创造力和数学。过往的嘉宾包括电影制作人、作家、表演艺术家和AI科学家。Email: bymclub(a)outlook.com